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Tmax + hot day = stranded (temporarily)

66K views 123 replies 28 participants last post by  o-livier 
#1 ·
Well, it happened to me too. After a ride of about a half hour my wife and I stopped to attend an art fair. It was so hot walking around we cut our visit to a half hour and headed back to our bikes. My Tmax (Ace) wouldn't start. It would crank and occasionally fire for a few seconds but no go. My wifes Buddy (Buddy) started with no hesitation. She rode Buddy home and came back in the car to pick me up. About 5 hours later we came back to Ace and she fired right up as usual. I have not ridden since because of back pain (unrelated incident).

I know this subject has been addressed before. I even found references using the search engine. What I didn't find was if anybody has successfully tackled this problem. Anybody? If you've had this problem, made some repair and the problem has not returned, WHAT DID YOU DO. I really don't want to be stranded again.
 
#2 ·
You had a classic case of "Tmax Fever". Do a "search" here for the posts, as it have been talked about at length.viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7736 Heres one to start with. Just scroll down the page and look for others.

It is a heat related condition when the weather is in the upper 80's+. Ace starting after setting for 5 hours is normal. Mine started up in front of my house after being towed/carried home. :x

Is your Tmax still under warranty? You may have to go bitch to your dealer, and get a new fuel pump installed. That has fixed some Tmax's with TF.
 
#4 ·
tmax fever--------my 2009 max (1600 miles) had all the heat related problem, would not start after a ride if it sat for 15-30 minutes. went to my yamaha dealer ( i have been a customer of this dealership for 20 years) they said they would fix it. they called yamaha tech and discribed the problem, yamaha said to replace the fuel pump and the problem should be solved. my machine was sold to the original owner in april of 2009 so it was an early model. dealer replaced the fuel pump and my max has run perfectly for the last three weeks. in northern indiana we have had record heat with temps over 90 degrees for the last 17 days. yamaha paid for the fuel pump. this solved my problem, i hope some fellow max owners will find this information helpful.
 
#5 ·
Good to see that you have a "good" dealer that looks out for their customers.

My Tmax Fever came after warranty, and my dealer after 50 years closed their doors three days after I picked up my Tmax. Economy killed them holding too many bikes, and no customers after fuel prices dropped.

It also never gets that hot in the Seattle or Western Washington area. About 74 right now.
 
#6 ·
Never had an issue yet with heat :D Mine is 12/07 model is there any difference? 30c+ temp
 
#9 ·
hozbee said:
Never had an issue yet with heat :D Mine is 12/07 model is there any difference? 30c+ temp
You may have a Type II Tmax. If you have an all Aluminum Cast Frame, then it's a Type III like we have in the US.
 
#11 ·
I've been riding in Florida heat for almost three years (17,500 miles so far) and no T-Max fever so far. If and when it ever happens, I'll go straight for a fuel pump replacement.
 
#12 ·
After over 12,000 miles of riding it finially happened to me, twice in 2 weeks, the temperatures have been in the mid to upper 90's here in Denver, the first time I had parked in a parking garage where there is no air movement after a ride down the interstate, the T-max would crank fine but not start, I turned the key off and on several times to cycle the fuel pump, I then held the throttle wide open and cranked and the T-max started to fire but ran really rough for about 5 seconds and then started running fine, this procedure worked both times I had the T-max fever issue, once started and the engine smoothed out after about 10 seconds or so it ran fine, no stalling. I don't know if this procedure would work for eveyone but it works for me, make sure to have your T-max on the center stand when trying this, when it starts you with the throttle wide open being an automatic it will try and take off.
 
#13 ·
Hi
I have a Tmax and I live in Australia. I have repeatedly experienced what has been called Tmax Fever when out on the scooter. Leave it sit for half an hour whilst have coffee with friends after a half hour ride and it can be relied on not to start. Won't start until you arrive with a bike trailer maybe fours hours later and it will start and run perfectly as if it's just there to irritate you. Because this behavior has become very predictable I have been able to observe it carefully. The first thing you can notice is the following. Normally when you turn the key on the gauges will cycle and you can hear the fuel pump make a whirring sound as the fuel is pressurized then the sound will stop. You should always wait for this sound to stop befoe turning key further to engage starter motor.starting should then be instant. When I hear this sound I know it is going to start. When the scooter is going to suffer from tmax fever you do not hear this sound.then I know that no amount of cranking the engine will cause it to start.

So the problem is heat related and is electrical. Nothing to do with vapor locks or other fuel related issues. Please note that I have not experienced the 'bucking problem' but have a friend who has. My theory is that there is a temperature triggered safety cut out in the fuel pump - wish Yamaha factory engineers could enlighten us. Have ordered a new fuel pump will let you know what happens.
 
#14 ·
It seems that there is a lot of variety in how Tmax Fever hits it's victims.

My version always happens (hot weather - temp gage over the halfway mark) after a normal start with the engine purring at idle, normal take off, and then it dies about 1/4 mile down the road. :evil:

I'm going to do a test of engine compartment temps. To see what the temperature rise is when a Tmax is ridden on a hot day, and then parked for half an hour. Then again every thirty minutes to see how fast it drops off.

I just have to wait for a hot day here in Seattle. :shock: :roll: :wink:
 
#15 ·
Hi guys, it looks like you're having a heat wave over ther. Its mid winter down under and our Tmaxs are purring. Ive been talking to my mate Wingman about this "fuel pump" problem on the Tmax's discribed in this thread. He has an 09 type III and I have an 06 Type II TMax. We both have an intermittent problem with our maxi's. Wingmans T Max has the first senario, where after riding in hot weather and stopping for a chat and a few coffees he cant start it. Its as if there is no response from the fuel pump but then several hours later it will start again no problem. I was there once and there was definately no noise from the fuel pump when he switched on the ignition.

I have experienced the second senario of the engine missing badly over about 4000rpm especially when accelerating hard, but going ok below 4000rpm. It first happened after I hadnt ridden it for about 3 weeks and I thought it was contaminated fuel. I found it would go away if I let it sit for about 20mins. Another time I "fixed" it by rolling on the throttle very slowly through the 4000rpm powerband until it went away. Ive since taken it on several long rides and the problem hasn't come back.

Wingman and I have been looking at this thread and the related thread and we think these are two different senarios.
This is Wingmans theory:

if the pump motor is not going then a full throttle start will do nothing. The only option is to cool the pump.

The pump is driven by an electric motor which sits in the top of the fuel tank. When electric motors fail it is usually because they seize or have shorted turns on the armature. These conditions will make an electric motor get VERY hot until it burns out. The burn out usually burns the contacts which effectively removes the voltage from the motor. This condition would have disastrous consequences if the motor was sitting in the middle of a fuel tank. Hence they must have a thermal cutout. I believe that it is this which is operating at too low a temperature which is causing the problem. This mechanism is inside the motor canister. It should not be tampered with. Solution is to fit a new fuel pump which comes with the sealed motor as part of the assembly. It is Yamaha's problem and you can bet that they know about it.

They will have fixed it on later pumps, they don't want the expense of a recall so they are laying low. Vespa on the other hand know they have the same problem with some of their VIN numbers and are stepping up to it. Full marks to Vespa for that.

Just my opinion. I am interested if others experiencing the problem can hear that the fuel pump is not going. wrt to your problem could be the cutout operating intermittently but I doubt it. I think this could be an unrelated problem.


Wingman is going to replace his fuel pump, Im in a holding pattern of wait and see. Its quite possible that my fuel pump is slowly going cactus hense the intermittent nature of the problem. Will keep on watching to see if anyone comes up with an answer.
 
#16 ·
Interesting thread! Just suffered the "Tmax fever" myself today (mid 80s and stuck in traffic). Put the Tmax in the shade for 1 hour and started again as if nothing wrong... Any idea how many hours of labor Yamaha ought to charge for replacing this fuel pump? I bought my 09 Tmax second hand not sure the warranty applies... Thanks
 
#17 ·
O-liver: Did your Tmax engine just die while you were stuck in traffic????

Have you had any problems with your "side stand switch"? Scoot won't start until you lower and raise the kick stand lever a couple times? I had this problem earlier in the day of one of my Tmax Fever episodes. I had stopped for coffee, and when I went to start it, nothing. I had this before, and remembered to flick the kick stand a couple of times. This got it going again. Later as I was riding along the scoot dies in the middle of a switchback and I coast to the inside of the curve where there was a pullout. A couple ups and downs on the kick stand, and the scoot starts, but I get about 100 yards and Rosie developes TMAX FEVER. :evil:

When I got home and took the side stand switch off, and checked inside; it was full of corrosion from water getting in and gumming up the aluminum housing on the inside. A good cleaning and a light surface coating of Lituhium grease on the inside faces of the switch body, seams to have fixed that problem.
 
#18 ·
Hi BWT,
I think the issue is tied to the fuel pump acting up. The issue is apparently well reported: left the Tmax 15-30 minutes parked while ran in a store (no issues riding it in hot/congested traffic). Issue is when I tried to start from the hot engine. As I turned the key, no pump sound + the center console message showed "F 0.0" indicating apparently that I was out of gas... While the right gauge showed more than a quarter tank full... I moved the tmax to the shade and let it sit one hour. As I came back and turned the key, I heard the pump turn on = started and rushed home!!! Wonder how I can prevent such? I will still check the side stand contact but think the issue is heat related. Any opinion/ experience on a preventive measure? O.
 
#19 ·
o-livier said:
Hi BWT,
As I turned the key, no pump sound + the center console message showed "F 0.0" indicating apparently that I was out of gas... While the right gauge showed more than a quarter tank full... I moved the tmax to the shade and let it sit one hour. O.
I haven't heard of this before. I've never had any signal from the "diagnostic" side of the CM with Tmax Fever. Either on the speedometer in normal mode, or deep in diagnostic mode.

Using good top grade gasoline?

You have/use E-10 gasoline in your area?

I wonder if the "corn" in the fuel is upsetting the rubber bits inside the pump when it gets hot out???? I know Yamaha only recommends 10% max on the corn, as it eats out some of the rubber bits if the percentage goes higher. The corn industry has been trying to get the percentage higher, so they can get more free money from the government.

I think I will call Yamaha Customer Service and ask them about what happens went you have too high a percentage of corn in the fuel.
 
#20 ·
Hi,
This issue only happened twice. Both on hot days. I watched the videos from LARCO on the internet and had exactly the same issue/ symptoms. I run the highest octane and never had this issue before. According to the dealer, plugging the Tmax on the diagnostic tool is the only way to read the "F 0.0" message. I understand that "F" stands for "reserve" and the number after is for the total miles since the "F" pops up. According to LARCO and others, the fuel pump is supposed to shut down when too hot... Wonder what is next? I could replace the pump (~$250) but wonder if this will be a reasonable preventive measure...

Rode the Tmax today (much milder temperature) and no issue at all...
 
#22 ·
I called Yamaha CS today, and asked them about E10 (corn) fuel sticking the inards of the fuel pumps, and whether the Tmax fuel pump had thermal protection.

I got a big ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Not much/no help if you are not a dealer/service manager with them. Said that I could not complain for the rest of the world, and that "they/you" had to call them. SO call them at: 1-800-962-7926
 
#23 ·
Tmax did it again today............... Stranded for one hour............... Leaving the T parked in the sun did not help in cooling it down... Imperative to let it cool in the shade from now on.... turned the key on = no pump sound = would not start............. Need to get this fixed ASAP!
 
#24 ·
How long where you stopped before you wanted to go again? 20-30 minutes?

You have "09" listed in your profile, so I would guess no warranty?

You might pick up and try one of the "instant" ice packs, and lay that on the top of the fuel tank under the little rubber flap.

Also call Yamaha CS and pitch a fit. :twisted: The numbers listed above.
 
#25 ·
bigwheelsturning said:
How long where you stopped before you wanted to go again? 20-30 minutes?

You have "09" listed in your profile, so I would guess no warranty?

You might pick up and try one of the "instant" ice packs, and lay that on the top of the fuel tank under the little rubber flap.

Also call Yamaha CS and pitch a fit. :twisted: The numbers listed above.
Instant Ice Packs (like the disposable ones runners use, you squeeze them and they cold for a while?)
Saw some on Ebay they were about $1 each when buying a couple of dozen in a case.
How big is the one you are carrying?
If it happens, squeeze the thing and open the flap to expose the gas cap, then what just lay the thing on the exposed area?
Would two of them be better than one?
How long for the ice packs to have a positive effect (would you guess)?
Did you know anyone that had real good success doing this?
Because that fix would be "Tolerable" until a more permanent fix is available.
 
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